Her Mysteries of Small Houses (1998) was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize. They really like The Descent of Alette, because its like a video game. Alice Notley wanders through a Paris cemetery and speaks to her dead father about her life in France, where she has lived since 1992. AroarA. vol. Or, as Notley puts it, the trick is to Try to get new language // closer to that of thought. You know Newman makes these large, abstract works. About two-thirds of the way through the book theres a dream that has to do with a poet that has written a poem called disobedience: the poet was Kenneth in the dream, but, such is dream logic, it was really me. She was married the British poet Douglas Oliver until his death in 2000. They really like, DR: Yes, right, on one level, shall we say? He would fly to Paris, find me, and we would have dinner; also, he had a group of Paris friends. 103DR: There are some lines from your poems, wrought like those in Stein, that one could carry in ones head all day and it would color that day; for example, that thinks but not only on words is one; all thats left of the old world are beautiful voices, is another that might change ones day. As in her feminist epic The Descent of Alette, the quotation marks here both interrupt and sustain. The first workshop that I taught was a crucial one for that generation actually. NOTLEY, Alice. of Marie de France. I gave a talk on his poetry last month, in New York, which I wrote during the cold snap, when it was too cold to go out for three days. But I met himI met everybodyaround 1968. Recent books continue to be at least somewhat character centered. Notley wrote extensively of her childhood and early life in her book Tell Me Again (Am here, 1982). When we moved to Needles, there had been a cry house which was a place where the Mojaves would go to cry when somebody died, and there was now this pile of boards: my mother was completely fascinated by the cry house, thus she would use that phrase; one of the first stories I wrote on route to the University of Iowas Writers Workshop for an MFA as a prose writer was about Needles, concerning a white man who goes to the cry house to cry. I had just been in the States. The word, the line, and also the stanza. There are different paces and reading styles possible; the performance can be different each time. Ive mostly dredged it all up, and I know how to get to it without dreaming. . Its not around me much now. Notley. The Crying Book Reveals How Tears Can Help Us, and How They Cant. Mystery of Small Houses. Alice Notley is a major American poet of our day, who has been living in Paris since the early 1990s, when she moved there with her second husband, the English poet, Doug Oliver (1937-2000), because Paris was where his professorial career was taking him. Then I found all the spots around the world in them and talked about them as being set in the world as a whole, saying that was a fitting poetry for now, when were all crossing borders all the time: spanning geography is the main event today, because there are so many people. 64AN: He was a good friend. Among the most powerful moments in her work are the ones marked by her teaching poetry workshops in New York and her self-publishing the book, Parts of a Wedding (1986). I think I know how to do things with my voice that are entirely musical. NOTLEY, Alice. Indeed, French poetry has had some weird times, where it got so abstract. I started noticing my dreams before I met Ted [Berrigan], but he used his dreams, and I just started doing it more after I was with him; then, after he died I did it even more. Notleys work is famously heterogeneous, but its possible to see a gradual shift in her work, beginning in the mid-eighties, away from the New York Schools emphasis on ordinary detail and the surfaces of daily city life. The character One is a kind of joke (Notley has always had an oddball sense of humor), but a joke that underscores the flimsiness of a stable idea of the self. White Phosphorus (1988) and Beginning with a Stain (1987). A passage from For the Ride (2020), by Alice Notley. Doug [Oliver] had died, and it was 2001. Theres a poem where you talk about meeting Teds mother. They wanted people to come and put the dances on, trying to help preserve them actually (there were about fifteen or twenty Indian Tribes in Arizona). 85DR: Also referring to the Aeneid, you speak about Dido in Songs And Stories Of The Ghouls (2011): she is a female character who suffers a kind of erasure, despite being the great queen of Carthage. I havent changed much since I first began writing: All the political problems are based in history. contact email: nicksturm00@gmail.com The range, audacity, and radical commitments of Alice Notley's poetry are unmatched in contemporary literature. Request a transcript here. I had it for a long time and it started to break. Like somebody live in some city. Bernadette Mayer writes through the pandemic. 33DR: I think for the reader those part-words can function to foreground an elsewhere. I applied pressure so that the brokenness would have the shape I wanted; then I think I made the back part separately and decided to glue the fan on it. It also marks a shift in Notleys poetics away from the freewheeling chattiness of the New York School and toward something more visionary, historical, and grandly narrative. And Virgil: Arma virumque cano, Troiae qui primus ab orisItaliam, fato profugus, Laviniaque venit: Thats the opening of the Aeneid and the opening of the Iliad is: , . The conjunctions are the most mysterious places in Johns work. Notley's work stands as a testament to how difficult it is to be truly individual. When I was becoming a poet, folk music was popular; Bob Dylan was getting started; and he was that kind of magpie. . 22DR: Like Ted Berrigan and Anne Waldman reading at Saint Marks church their collaborative poem, Memorial Day (May 6, 1971), that episode of Public Access Television, June 16, 1977, where you and Eileen Myles read together must count among the great New York School moments still on record. Thats why my poetry works so well. ALICE NOTLEY has been hailed as one of the United States's greatest living poets.She is the author of more than 25 books of poetry and the recipient of numerous awards, including, most recently . 18DR: The conversation has veered far from Needles, which I hope we will return to, as we evoke various social spaces that seep into the poems. Miles Davis live at Birdland or something. I was her teacher, though Im not much older than she is, about four years older. To come back to this one, I read it as a kind of danse macabre because theres something resembling skulls going on here with the top of the fan supports. Notleys struggle for solace and understanding is all the more moving for its contradictions, confusions, and stutters. I thought that they were voices of dead French people, but they just came from everywhere; the voices came for that poem. turn right, that dream building cutglass window in door. Coming After. Ron Padgett. Ultimately, I am expressing a desire to run into the desert and get some space, the space everybody needs around themselves and unfortunately are not getting. I could have a conversation about Royal Trux: a very chaotic indie group, sometimes awful, sometimes amazingly brilliant. The former Presidents political and legal challenges are mounting, even as some polls indicate that he still has a lot of support among Republicans. Or both but instantly. The two worked on two magazines together, Gare du Nord and Scarlet, and self-published a compendium of their own books, The Scarlet Cabinet, which contained Notley's Descent of Alette. What her husband George Burns called her illogical logic. I knew that I was also doing something like what they used to talk about in college: the taking of two disjunctive things then the jamming of them together: that was part of our critical education at the time; in fact, John Ashbery would have had it too, probably, though he was twenty years older than I was. But every time he quoted somebody he misquoted him or her without even knowing it, so he always made the texture his own. But only One is here.One is composed of words like one makes in beginning, chaotically.One makes them? For some 45 years, she has striven against the forces that stifle idiosyncrasy. I had it for a long time and it started to break. Mysteries of Small Houses (1998) won the Los Angeles Times Book Prize, and her collection Disobedience (2001) was awarded the Griffin International Poetry Prize. Ted had left Sandy; I was living in sin with Ted, which Peggy didnt seem to mind at all, as she liked me a lot. Notley also thanks Tom Clark who would go on to re-publish the sonnet cycle in his anthology All Stars. ASHBERY, John. Its deliberate, in order to find something out. The artist Rudy Burckhardt once wrote that Notley may be "our present-day Homer." In 1986, Notley led a workshop where participants were required to write an entire book during the course of their meetings. , Saint Marks Poetry Project, c.1980, courtesy of the Alice Notley, re-photographed by Daesong Kim. How do we make sense of ourselves in relation to huge abstract institutions such as democracy, the state, and marriage? DR: He has said that he started doing collages in his twenties and continued throughout his life. Alice Notleys influence on a later generation of poets exploring the subject of motherhood is hard to overstate. I certainly wouldve used anything to keep from being sent. AN: Yes, they were the two Irish of the set. He taught some writing: one writing class, and one civilization and literature class. Its filthy; I dont remember how I got. Disobedience. Disobedience. Courtesy of the artist, re-photographed by Daesong Kim, April 2018. Over the course of Alice Notley's long and prolific career she's written more than 25 books since 1971 readers have assigned her any number of identities: native of the American West,. Cherokee. Alma, or The Dead Women. AN: He had no trust in his own ability to write things out, while he had faith in his ability to find things. Need a transcript of this episode? I applied pressure so that the brokenness would have the shape I wanted; then I think I made the back part separately and decided to glue the fan on it. Poems for milestone birthdays and those in-between. In response, another woman informs: "'he . Theyre beautiful. Have you read that book? Alice Notley wanders through a Paris cemetery and speaks to her dead father about her life in France, where she has lived since 1992. AN: Yes and a certain way of being cocky, which was very Irish, you know, a certain way of being witty, sort of a blunt kind of wittiness. When I was writing such pieces and reading them they changed a lot; but it was about trying to get how the mind works, which meant I was writing generally as fast as I could while still keeping self-control, which is why I allowed all these part-words to come in. But people often say that Marianne Moore writes with the whole sentence. Im working on arcane things at the moment which I find hard to talk about. 113DR: Yes, that brings me back to what I was saying earlier about Andr Bretons Nadja who sees things before they happen next and is just carted off: the status of mediums becomes a metaphor for the status of poetry in society. This guy is doing vinyl records of poets and hes done a series including one of me and one of Eileen [Myles]. Alice Notley on her life with Ted Berrigan. In 2015, she was awarded the Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize. At Berrigan's behest, his students at Northeastern became very active members of the local poetry scene, starting magazines and reading series. The others were like me, though Hispanic and black. Ive noticed it with my granddaughters. AN: I do not expect to be well known in the universities because that context tends to be too academic, and generally French poetry is in a bad place. Poems, articles, podcasts, and blog posts that explore womens history and womens rights. . Its from Homer. AN: I met him once, Barnett Newman, right before he died. DR: Historically, painting is central to cultural New York and to New York poetry. As Notley writes in The Prophet (1981): One is you & all this & two & yet. The yet is where poetry begins. Their apartment at 101 St. Mark's Place again became a hub for both young writers and Berrigan and Notley's contemporaries. One is making them, conscious. 26DR: In her Paris Review interview (2015) she says that she learned from John Ashbery never to complete a thought, which is a rich idea. When expanded it provides a list of search options that will switch the search inputs to match the current selection. Revue dtudes amricaines. The Indians said: No, we wont do it, but we will send people to teach them to you. The tribes then would send the people to Prescott, and every year they would teach these businessmen dances. In that sad, beautiful book, theres so much irony, whereas some literary critics take everything at face value. (2005), and I have essays in it about her and Joanne Kyger, Ted Berrigan, Lorenzo Thomas, Frank OHara, and some others. Frank had a characteristic, manly idea of existing in the world despite what you might call his femininity, and I think that Ted understood it as something like being a Jimmy Cagney or something from the movies: Ted knew how to take that stance. Shehad two sons with him, the poets Edmund and Anselm Berrigan. Like the Hollywood marriage in this poem, Notley and Berrigans creative partnership was loving, mutually enriching, and, as she shows us here, a bit magical. Sonnet He taught some writing: one writing class, and one civilization and literature class. Within the text, a woman is desperate to take her daughter above ground, therefore she offers to pay the tyrant money. In March 2021, Notley was a guest blogger forHarriet. and Laurence B. HOLLAND. Batsford Ltd., 1945. In his humorous anti-manifesto, Personism, the poet Frank OHara discloses one of arts great truths: you just go on your nerve. Considering this truth, he wonders, But how can you really care if anybody gets it, or gets what it means, or if it improves them. In the search for immediacy, he writes, questions of accessibility can come to seem pointless: Improves them for what? The others were like me, though Hispanic and black. It was reissued in 2021 by the London-based small press Distance No Object. Indeed, French poetry has had some weird times, where it got so abstract. Individual Time. The Man in the Long Black Coat, (1989) by Bob Dylan influenced the sound of the first two parts, which I wrote last. 92AN: She was great. There are others of course, but could you begin by speaking around those atmospheres? His reviews and interviews have appeared in Kenyon Review, The Rumpus, and Pleiades. Notleys latest collection, For the Ride, a sprawling book-length poem, continues her trajectory into the unknown: anything happens here / in the magic of ones chaos. With its mess of divergent voices, picture-poems, and eccentric locutions, the result is baffling, beautiful, and always fascinatingly Notley. AN: I read it when I was about twenty-three, in English. NOTLEY, Alice. I thought that they were voices of dead French people, but they just came from everywhere; the voices came for that poem. My mother had broken her hip. Thats what Ive done ever since in different ways. To quote: If its a spiritual offense does it as wrongdoing take place more in more in the second leftover/ as a leftover and is the significance of the double now that I might be might the /one who offends Have you heard it read? I dont know anything about French pop culture at all; Im necessarily estranged from American pop culture, but I do sometimes know whats going on in music. . DR: Well I think of Williams as a kind of Calder mobile waiting to enter into movement. . There was one called How Green Was My Hair Brush? which was a Ron title. In the case of John Ashbery, theres a poem called Syringa (1977) with an Orphean motif. I actually feel bad when I dont write, like yesterday, but I always have something going on. The Descent of Alette. In 1999, Notley was both a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize and a winner of the Los Angeles Times Book Prize for Poetry. Notleys next book, Mysteries of Small House (1998), is an experiment with the autobiographical mode, in which Notley was firstly trying to realize the first person singular as fully and nakedly as possible. Her subsequent book, Disobedience (2001), heads in the opposite direction, showing disobedience to the notions of truth and reality, featuring comic confrontations with reoccurring characters like Robert Mitch-ham, a man that closely resembles the actor Robert Mitchum. I felt I knew what the cry house was, and had ideas about it: I knew how to use regional things. But her writing exerts intense attraction. AN: It was definitely weird to get food stamps. Notley has stayed very involved in the preservation of both Berrigan and Oliver's works, having edited and written introductions for a number of their books and she continues to be a prolific and powerful force in contemporary poetry, winning the Leonore Marshall Poetry Prize in 2007 and the Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize in 2015. Paris: Gallimard, Bibliothque de La Pliade, 1988, p. 643-753. I am furious about people calling their speech against Trump the resistance. However, I have a poem, which happened to be written before Trump was elected, in an anti-Trump-type anthology thats coming out because I figure any place I can get a poem published is an occasion to seize. Its more like a pause between metrical feet. Where Leftover Misery Goes. Robert Haas, Guest Editor, The Best American Poetry of 2001. ; but that bird was in a book; you see that phrase there marks what I was barred from: so the thing to see is that Im in jail and they wont let me into the Htel des Grands Hommes. Which is the Panthon. Im working on arcane things at the moment which I find hard to talk about. Among her two newest volumes are Eurynomes Sandals (Presses Universitaires de Rouen, 2019) and For the Ride (Penguin Books, 2020). And that other one was something I just picked up from the sidewalk. Jobs People Learning Dismiss Dismiss. Aeneas founded a city, Rome. I think all poets do that; its also something out of the tradition of folk music. Ted had left Sandy; I was living in sin with Ted, which Peggy didnt seem to mind at all, as she liked me a lot. DYLAN, Bob, The Man in the Old Black Coat.. This period also marked an increase in scholarly interest in Notley's work. She has lived most extensively in Needles, in New York, and since 1992 in Paris, France. He was my political education really. Those are the ones Im working on right now, which have to do with my poetry of the moment. Need a transcript Alice Notley has become one of Americas greatest living poets. Ad Choices. [2], After Notley's graduation, she and Berrigan spent periods of time in New York City and Buffalo. I had met him in 1969, then we stayed friends. In Notley's epic poem, The Descent of Alette, form takes many shapes. Its also a passionate entreaty to writers to make work thats completely their own. Pictures from Breughel and Other Poems and The Desert Music and Other Poems (1954): that book is fantastic; he caught the new line, which he refers to in one of his letters. At that point Alice Notley was finding New York less amenable and was keen to go somewhere else. But I met himI met everybodyaround 1968. [17], Encyclopedia of the New York School Poets. Alice Eliza Harvey Expand search. Cathy Park Hong has some thoughts for you, and some thoughts on how best to share them. DR: I wouldnt be able to take the journey if I couldnt hear the poem.. 70DR: Was the teaching of poetry workshops something that connected you to Kenneth Koch? Courtesy of Alice Notley, re-photographed by Daesong Kim, April 2018. One day she took a lot of pills in a quasi-suicide attempt, when I was there, and then she just had to be rescued from this life of working a lot, not having enough, and too little company. Notley edited seven of the issues with Berrigan taking over one while Notley was pregnant with their first son. Can we know where the crystal ark of language is taking us? , CA, c.1985, courtesy of the artist, re-photographed by Daesong Kim. 2023 Cond Nast. It so happens that there are many of those trees, syringas, in Rochester, NY, where hes from. Syringa. Houseboat Days. 20DR: Eileen Myles is another poet who comes from an Irish, working-class, New England background and lost her father. [3] Alice. Se encuentra en la Regin Sudeste y en la provincia de Leinster. New York: United Artists, 1979. Was she of an Irish sort? These places are continuously operating as presences in your poetry, particularly the Needles of your youth, in California, the Lower Manhattan in the heyday of New York School Poetry, and the Paris of today. Alice scared me. November 2014. You know that quotation from a Paris Review interview (1983) that everything is this underground river and you can just draw from it any time you want to. She has long written in narrative and epic and genre-bending modes to discover new ways to explore the nature of the self and the social and cultural importance of disobedience. He spent two years in India, which changed everything about him. In New York, the poets you met were mostly all from somewhere else (except for a few of them like Bill Berkson and Kenward Elmslie). Since I had all these poems without titles, I just randomly assigned Rons titles to the poems that ended up in For Frank OHaras Birthday (1976). Did it influence you? I thought that that printing added something, though: I enjoyed turning the book to read the poem. Alice Notley (born November 8, 1945) is an American poet. 58AN: I actually listened to Monteverdi to get the cadences that were before The Descent of Alette: particularly in White Phosphorus (1988) and at the end of Beginning with a Stain (1987). Other beings begin to materialize, and it seems that they are all survivors of a global disaster. Its rare when a book summary isnt entirely sure whats going on inside, and such enigmas are either an irritant or central to Notleys mystique, depending on your taste. 21AN: She lost her father younger than Ted lost his. I'm calling out from pictures to your vision creating it. DR: Your attitude towards staleness in the academic world, your sensitivity towards these questions of history and politics, indeed your measure and courage for speaking out reminds me of one first-generation New York School poet in particular, Kenneth Koch. Join now Sign in . New Addresses. Its possible Im living in the apartment of someone who was taken away to the camps. I knew him in New York, where I saw him from time to time; but after I moved here, he sought me out. I used to substitute teach for him, sometimes, at Brooklyn College. A woman whose work completely knocked me out. That was one of the first things Ted [Berrigan] told me about John: he kept a list of titles, like Civilization and Its Discontents, then he would decide, Ah, that would be a great title for a poem, and then later he would check his list and pull that title out. London: B.T. But Notley, never one to be pinned down, has continued to push poetrys formal constraints, and this pursuit has led her far away from portraits of domestic life. One year at a big Thanksgiving dinner, I sat next to the poet Michel Deguy; many of his friends in Paris were met for instance when playing tennis. Among Notleys most famous works is At Night the States, an elegy for Berrigan written two years after his death. This interview took place in Alice Notleys apartment in Paris, in June 2018. Eileen was in it, as was Bob Holman. She edited and wrote the introduction for the reissue of Ted Berrigans The Sonnets (2000), as well as editing, with her sons, The Collected Poems of Ted Berrigan (2005). . Then I found all the spots around the world in them and talked about them as being set in the world as a whole, saying that was a fitting poetry for now, when were all crossing borders all the time: spanning geography is the main event today, because there are so many people. Would you like to come? I didnt go. Although Notley is less known to a casual poetry readershipher inventiveness and audacity are matched by her difficulty she is one of the singular voices in contemporary American poetry. (2006). Ultimately, I am expressing a desire to run into the desert and get some space, the space everybody needs around themselves and unfortunately are not getting. Which is something that John Ashbery would probably have agreed with, in a way. There are others over there. Then I figured out how to write them, so they enter the text. Instagram, New York: W.W. Norton & Company, 1979, p. 911-1772. Maggie Nelson, in her excellent book about the women of the New York School, describes Notleys later aesthetic as Fuck You the reader, fuck mainstream poetry, fuck avant-garde poetry, fuck France, fuck America, fuck daily life, fuck death, and so on.. The first time I went there I was completely humiliated by the people working there. But although it feels dashed-off, OHaras essay is more than fashionable flash. DR: With your interpolation of popular culture into epic poetry, I would expect you to be a household name here in France. DR: Lets see, arrive the exactitude of pitch the tune in words alone; thats In the Pines too. 41DR: He has said that he started doing collages in his twenties and continued throughout his life. 6David Reckford: Among the physical, cultural, and intellectual environments that have formed your particular sensitivity, there seems to be several strong and contrasting places. Then he writes poetry in the variable foot which is a huge influence on my later work. I can do that with my speaking voice in poems. DR: Now I heard you say that the cadences for, AN: I actually listened to Monteverdi to get the cadences that were before, : particularly in White Phosphorus (1988) and at the end of Beginning with a Stain, . I. I used to substitute teach for him, sometimes, at Brooklyn College. One day she took a lot of pills in a quasi-suicide attempt, when I was there, and then she just had to be rescued from this life of working a lot, not having enough, and too little company. Anne Waldman says that one thing she learned at that point was that the Hindus say carry your enemy on your shoulder. Thats a counter-intuitive idea. 1Alice Notley is a major American poet of our day, who has been living in Paris since the early 1990s, when she moved there with her second husband, the English poet, Doug Oliver (1937-2000), because Paris was where his professorial career was taking him. Always made the texture his own things at the moment which I find hard to talk about No, wont. Is a huge influence on my later work ] had died, marriage... Y en la Regin Sudeste y en la Regin Sudeste y en la Regin Sudeste y en provincia... Class, and one civilization and literature class interest in Notley 's work work thats completely own! Graduation, she was married the British poet Douglas Oliver until his death 2000... Of her childhood and early life in her book Tell me Again ( Am here, ). And had ideas about it: I met him in 1969, then we friends. 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